8/2/2015
Smart Car Discussion |
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Lee and Evelyn 02 December 2010 05:06 PM |
Afternoon folks, Is there a specific SKPs forum discussing Smart cars? I've looked but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. What I'm looking for are comments from HDT/Smart owners as to pros/cons, would you do something different the next time, loading/unloading problems or lack of problems, etc. I'm looking at several piggyback options and trying to decide what would be the most user friendly, trouble free mode of street legal transportation; Smart, trike, etc.???? I know what I really want does not exist, a 50 state all-roads street legal. Razor, Ranger, Mule, or Jeep that would fit cross ways on the back of a HDT. If this issue has been beaten to death in previous discussions can you point me in the right direction? |
Phil D 02 December 2010 05:53 PM |
You're in the right place. There isn't an Escapees forum that pertains to the Smart, but there's been plenty of discussion about them here in the HDT forum. A search will turn up plenty of information for your consideration. |
Dennis M 02 December 2010 06:34 PM |
Phil is right, do some searching and you will find extensive discussions of various methods of loading Smarts and the pros and cons. As far as I know we were the first to build a deck and load a Smart (March 2006) and we have been carrying it ever since.
Our Smart is a model 450 which is 98" long, the 451 currently sold in the states is 107" so that is an issue. The only 450s in the US were gray market cars and less that 1,100 were federalized. The Canadian 450s were all diesel and there are issues getting them in under EPA regulations, though that seems to be loosening in some areas. As far as changes to what we did, the only issues were attaching to the tow hooks with a strap, which we replaced with a bar; and burning out the 2,500 lb. winch, which we replaced with an 8k Smittybilt winch. We have been happy with the Smart as a daily driver as well, it is the DWs primary vehicle when we are home and obviously primary when we travel. No issues with city or highway driving, although the ride comfort could be better, but not much can be done about it due to the short wheelbase. |
DJW 02 December 2010 06:55 PM |
Lee We were the 4th to put the Smart up on the back of the HDT. I tried to take the best from the first 3. I think David (Toterman) did a great job on the design and the building of the deck for the amount of money I had in my budget. We loaded the Smart for the 1st time in May/June 07 and have not looked back since. I have pretty much forgiven Dennis M for starting this and costing me so much money. I have probably driven the Smart the longest distance in one day which was 1140 miles and it did just fine and if I remember right it cost me about $116 dollars or so. I do not believe you would go wrong with putting a Smart 450 up on the back of your HDT if that size car will work for you. Dennis |
Neal and Bernice 02 December 2010 07:23 PM |
Hi Lee We are way way way down on the "who was first" list. We just loaded our Smart this summer and we're having a blast with it. It's not a big car but what it lacks in size it makes up for in character. We have an 08 they tell me is 106" and "so far" we've had no issues. On our way from Winnipeg to RGV a couple months back we had a few LEOs give us a second look but nobody said a word. We've gone through two scales and again nobody said a word. We chose to load ours sideways using Big Boy II ramps and we're happy with the decision. You can see the whole process on our blog (below) if you're interested. Best of luck, Neal |
PSD_Tweaker 02 December 2010 07:47 PM |
The Canadian SMARTS have been on the market for quite a while. They are now available on the used market for under $6K. I know they are the diesel version, but some folks see that as an advantage.
There are several reports of fairly straight-forward import procedures. I think the SMART is the only vehicle out there that can mount sideways on a HDT. |
roadfitter 02 December 2010 09:15 PM |
HI ALL!! Well this seems like the right place and time to bring up a suggestion. I have not seen or heard on any of the "ESCAPEE" threads of a "SMART for TWO" BOF. That may be an idea that's time has come. You only need ten (10) people with a common interest to ask for BOF status. They don't even need a car, just the interest. Now there's a head scratcher. In The Faith roadfitter WE would sign up as LURKERS/WANNABES! MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY NEW YEAR!! |
Billr 02 December 2010 09:19 PM |
We loaded the Smart in 09 and glad we did. We were going to load a bike, but it was limiting for weather and other reasons. So the Smart is the only choice at this time for a cross load.
I decided to not tilt the bed after advice from guys that did and didn't. After a couple years loading, no issue. I use 12' folding Alum "Big Boyz" ramps from Discount Ramps. If the truck is close to level (side to side) and I dump the air, no issues at all with clearance on the bottom of the car loading. I drive it off with no problem. Winch it up using a Smitybuilt 8K winch. Since there is no frame to tie the car with, and you need to let the car's suspension work (so it doesn't beat itself to death on the truck) you need to strap the tires down. That takes the most time, but no issue. If I were to change anything, it would be the way I built the frame for the winch pulley (reverses the winch cable direction, see pics on my Picasa album) Its way to massive and heavy to lift and store. I will rework that soon. Some folks don't winch up, they drive er up! I feel the little car's clutch is way to fragile to handle the incline and very costly to replace. Being in Canada the 450 Smarts are easy to find and reasonable to buy like Rick mentioned. They do have faults. High cost of parts and labor if you have to take it in to MB. I try to do all the work myself, but still have to buy the parts! Had to replace one injector, turbo, wiper mech/motor, springs and a few minor items. All fairly common items on the Diesels. Had the car for 2 yrs. Had 40K on it when we got it and 75K now. We don't mind driving the little car. We don't even notice its small anymore. Loads of leg room. It drives very nice and has plenty of power to get us where we need to go. No issue on the highways either. We will replace it with a new 451 (Gasser) when the time is right. I already have test loaded one this past summer to see how it looked. I will have no issue carrying it with the "Actual" 2 1/2" per side more than the 450. Remove the front license plate bracket to trim an inch. If money were no object, I'd build a tilt loader that you load the car flat on the ground, strap it and hit a button! Sweet! See Henry for getting one of those!! We were lucky to have the forum and the very helpful folks here help us with tips on bed build and equipment. Check the resource guide for Smart stuff, it has a ton of info. If you need any details, just ask the folks that have them loaded! |
Gargoyle 02 December 2010 09:41 PM |
I loaded an '09 Smart. Like Billr I used the 12 ft. ramps. I have no problems loading on level ground even with the suspension up, dropping it gets me another 3 inches. Also the '09 is only 106.1 inches long. The max in most, if not all, states is 102 inches. In Texas, the Administrative Code allows 104 inches but the Smart is still 2 inches over that. I personally doubt that I will ever get stopped for being overwidth. My truck bed is nowhere near 102 so I will swear that the car only "looks" wide since the bed is narrow Larry Herrin installed a 6k winch on my truck so I hope it will be enough for a long time to come. |
Darryl&Rita 02 December 2010 10:06 PM |
roadfitter on Dec 2 2010, 07:15 PM, said: Sign us up, I feel the need to be a BOF. |
Jim Hicks 02 December 2010 10:54 PM |
I saw this rig up close and personal. Gargoyle's ramps and loading procedure worked like a champ! It's a nice setup!
Gargoyle, dare I ask why you would know the "Code"? |
Gargoyle 02 December 2010 - 11:36 PM |
What can I say Jim? I like to know what laws I am bending. |
Dennis M 02 December 2010 11:41 PM |
After reading the comments I will second the idea of 12 foot ramps. Mine are 10' and the angle is a bit steeper than I like. It works fine for winching up and down, but I have gotten lazy and usually just drive it off - when you are in the car those ramps are STEEP! Almost feels like it is going to tip forward.
Speaking of tips, the Smarts have an automatic hill holder that prevent you from "feathering" the brakes going down the ramps. First time I tried it I got the front wheels onto the ramps, slowly released the brakes and nothing happened! Then, 3 seconds later, BANG I was on the ground! That was exciting. Now I move the wheels onto the ramps and shift to neutral - then I can "feather" the brakes all the way down. The DW still refuses to watch |
DaveM 03 December 2010 07:37 AM |
Something to consider as far as the Smart car.....kind of scary!!!! |
Billr 03 December 2010 08:56 AM |
Gezz Buddy, Really?? You dug up a 2 yr. old pic of a wreck that is NOT even a Smart. We do appreciate your concern for all us "Dare Devils" though! |
Billr 03 December 2010 09:00 AM |
Sure makes it an easier off load eh Dennis? Kind of jerky in gear. ha Even with the 12' ramps the ground comes up pretty fast and close! Bill |
Tim / Roseann 03 December 2010 09:33 AM |
I don't care what car I'm in, I would NOT want to be in an accident like this. Tonnage ALWAYS wins.
Be aware that the wheels on the car do NOT match what is on a Smart car. IMHO, I don't think it's a Smart |
Tim / Roseann 03 December 2010 09:58 AM |
We have an '09 Smart and really like it. We use 16' ramps from Discount Ramps. They are in 8' sections and are easy to handle. They are probably overkill for the situation but that's OK with me. The ramps store easily under the car for travel. We do not have any clearance problem.
We use an 8K# Smitty built winch to haul it up on the bed. It goes up very easily. I drive it off with guidance from DW. We use 1000# straps around the tires to hold it down and don't have any issues with that system. Our total los time is about 1 hr. & unload time 40 min. I take my time when doing this. It could be done quicker but I'm usually not in a big hurry. Things I would change are: We've been closely examined by a Colorado State Trooper at a rest stop while we waited for a tire repair. He spent 30 min going over the whole system of how we loaded it, tied it down and unloaded it. End of story is we were told that we were very smart in how we were doing things. He thought we had given safety the place it needed, 1st and foremost in We were recently followed by a Texas Trooper and photographed extensively when we were bobtail with the car loaded. When we stopped for dinner, he just continued on. I had to assume that there weren't any questions about what we were doing. Larry Herrin built the bed for us. It was the first he did like this and did it all without seeing the Smart. He did a great job and I'm very pleased with how it all turned out. |
Lee and Evelyn 03 December 2010 11:07 AM |
Thanks to all for the responses.
A few years ago if someone had told me I might like one of these little cars I would have laughed but they seem to grow on you. I looked at a new one on display at the KC airport last year and was impressed by the leg room for such a short wheelbase. As I stated in my original post, the 8' long, 4x4, street legal vehicle I really want just doesn't exist but you guys have convinced me the Smart is the most practical way to go. Maybe an all wheel drive Smart will pop out on the market some day. My bed build will continue with the Smart in the plan. Thanks everyone and have a great day. |
Darryl&Rita 03 December 2010 11:29 AM |
You don't have a location listed, but some jurisdictions are allowing those Japanese mini-trucks to be street registered. The Suzuki Sambra, in particular, has a straight section of frame long enough to cut 17" out. The result is a 102" bumper to bumper length, 4x4. The whole right hand drive, under 1 liter powerplant, and overall "funny factor" may be discouraging. |
Lee and Evelyn 03 December 2010 12:43 PM |
Hey Darrel&Rita, We have one of those at work! There is a certainly amount of funny factor. But maybe...... |
Dennis M 03 December 2010 03:01 PM |
That picture was discussed on the Smart forums extensively a few years ago. Conclusion (with other pics) was that it was a Suzuki Samurai. I doubt any vehicle would survive that incident.
BTW, the Smart is built like an egg, everything that is silver is part of the frame. They call it a Tridion Safety Cell |
SuiteSuccess 03 December 2010 06:02 PM |
Not trying to hijack the thread but is there enough room in the "package compartment" to carry two sets of golf clubs in carry bags? |
Bluenoser 03 December 2010 06:18 PM |
Yeah, I don't think dying in a Smart is any less honorable than dying in a mid or full-sized car. I doubt any normal passenger vehicle could have protected the occupants in a HDT sandwich like that. |
Dennis M 03 December 2010 07:55 PM |
SuiteSuccess, on Dec 3 2010, 05:02 PM, said: Nope. You could get them in if you folded the passenger seat, but then you would not need two sets. Problem is the width, it will take a couple of suitcases or 5 or 6 bags of groceries. |
DJW 03 December 2010 09:25 PM |
If you pack just right in 2 medium size gym bags and place them end to end in the storage area you can pack enough clothes for you and your DW for a 2 month stay with your kids and still have room for your laptop, 2 winter coats and the traveling makeup bag. You can drive 1140 miles in 1 day and spend under $120 for gas. Now the trick to this is you must have a low maintenance DW. However if she is not the low maintenance type I would go ahead and just take the 1 set of clubs. Dennis |
Bluenoser 03 December 2010 11:43 PM |
Umm....
If she is really high maintenance, I might suggest taking two sets of clubs. I think you get my point.... |
rickeieio 04 December 2010 07:59 AM |
If she's that high maintenance, you have the wrong MB. |
DaveM 04 December 2010 08:07 AM |
Wow guys, didn't mean to jerk your chains as far as the accident with the car. If it was a Smart car or not its still something to think about.
On the other hand I was a railroad conductor for 42 yrs. and BIG trucks like yours are no match to the train either. Trust me, them things have way more tons than you do. It was meant as a thing to look at, and I had no clue it was 2 yrs. old. Guess the Smart car is different though!!! |
SuiteSuccess 04 December 2010 08:38 AM |
Thanks Dennis, did find a "carrier" that can be placed into a class I hitch that can be added to the Smart and used to carry two sets of clubs or other packages. Called the "Hitch Caddy." Kind of pricey though. |
Biker56 04 December 2010 10:25 AM |
Smart Car voted #7 on the Least safe car list of all time. |
Jack Mayer 04 December 2010 10:30 AM |
Based on what, though....someone's opinion, or based on data? If you ever looked at the crash tests it seems pretty safe to me..... |
Bluenoser 04 December 2010 10:58 AM |
This article basically addresses my concern about the Smart Cars. I really like the flexibility they offer, but my perception of the crash tests is that they are rated against cars of similar size which is less likely to happen as they are a small portion of the vehicle fleets out there. When they hit larger vehicles - which is the more likely scenario - they apparently lose the physics war.
I don't criticize the choice Smart owners have made, it just wasn't the choice for me. |
Jackie and Skip Tamm 04 December 2010 11:17 AM |
We love our Smart, have had it since 2008, travels well on Taz, easy to load and unload!! Self designed, only made one mistake, other than that no troubles since then. |
Gargoyle 04 December 2010 12:09 PM |
Smart Car voted 100 times safer than the vehicle in your avatar photo.....and it doesn't require you to put a foot down at stop signs plus the a/c works in the summer. |
Biker56 04 December 2010 01:24 PM |
The Smart may be safer.
In over 46 years of driving a vehicle like in my avatar. I have yet been in my first accident (knock on wood). Both the Smart and my vehicle are a 2 person vehicle. My vehicle has a small MPG advantage. But less CCC. Always ware a helmet and carry a rain suite when driving one like mine. I did have the #4 Corvair in the list for a short time. After someone in my same town, got killed in one by a guard rail going through the front of it. I'm no way responsible for the facts in the list I posted a link to, nor know how they came to be, who made them etc. But a Google search will come up with those and other similar result's. I had even thought about getting a Smart for a toad myself. But the almost year wait to get one at the time and my sometimes needing a 4 passenger vehicle. I bought a 08 HHR for almost the same price (17.8K) with a 172HP 2.4L engine, leather heated seats, electric sun roof, 17" Chrome wheels, AC, 57.7 cu ft. for storage. That pulls 4 down with a switch on one fuse. OH! it also has a AC. Your experience can be different and nothing is wrong with that. The D in the DW above doesn't mean dear, darling or anything like that. |
PSD_Tweaker 04 December 2010 01:38 PM |
Gargoyle, yes you are 100% correct...
That's WHY they call them SMART cars I guess So....pray for me then will you! |
Gargoyle 04 December 2010 02:23 PM |
Rick Rick, I have absolutely nothing against bikes, rode one for years myself. I just find it curious that the people that talk the loudest about how unsafe my Smart is, turn around and get onto a vehicle that is even more "unsafe". I don't care how big your helmet is or how think your leathers are, rolling down the road, wearing a big helmet and thick leathers, at 35 or 40mph is gonna hurt a whole lot more than me wrecking my Smart. My new neighbors told me how they would never be caught driving something as unsafe as a Smart. She told me how her husbands F250 could flatten my Smart easily, while he laughed...just before they and their friends left on their Harley's. A week later I parked BART in my front yard for the first time. When she saw it she came over to tell Both elderly couples across the street love BART. They come out to watch me load and unload the Smart every time. The woman with the HoverAround scooter wants to race and has offer to give the Smart a head start. The bikers next door on the other hand .. oh well, they are moving anyway. Maybe some old folks will buy their |
Emery Nash 04 December 2010 03:11 PM |
We have had our 2009 Smart 451 for almost 2 years and 23,000 miles. A year ago we took 4 weeks to go from Raleigh to Orlando and central Florida and see a shuttle launch. Merrily drove the Smart on that trip but we practiced the full-timers way of 200 - 250 miles a day so no long long iron butt sessions. She was not unhappy with it and looked forward to our next trip when we got home.
We built our Smart Car Bed on the Volvo in the early summer 2010 and have taken several trips with the Smart loaded. The full build and videos of loading and unloading are on my blog at RVbuddys.blogspot.com. There is a lot more full build pictures on rvbuddy.Smugmug.com. After watching all the unprecedented ice breaking of this whole area by the aforementioned Smart car carrying pioneers, I decided to start simple but flexible for future expansion. To down dress the obvious 106" length of the 451, I followed Red Dog's idea of a wider bed. His is 105" wide and he has had no challenges after several coast to coast and Canada to Mexico trips over the past 4 years. Mine is 102" and does not stick out wider than the step fairings. I drive on and off (see the videos) and other than regularly forgetting to blow the air bags to load (does make a little noise when the body pan scraps) have had no problems, yet. As for the clutch issue, it really is not an issue. One does not start off on the ramps. It is advisable to line up, back up and pull up full length on the ramps with a spotter watching and then check alignment of wheels, angles, etc. Back straight down the ramps, make adjustments and do it again until you are straight on and aligned like you want. There is no reason to rush this process as one can always load it somewhere else if conditions or circumstances make it a push situation. Once alignment is squared away with the ramps and bed and truck then an idling-off start from several feet back gets the car going and the clutch fully engaged before heading up the ramps. It only takes a little practice to get "onboard" before touching the brake and after that the car is pretty level on the bed for final adjustments so no real clutch slipping is ever done to load or unload the car. Coming off is better with it in neutral than in a gear or reverse, just because of the hill-holder complication. Being able to load/unload from either side makes it a lot more flexible and easier to match the circumstances at the time. The ramps I chose are 12' and it is not usually difficult to find places that are at or above the plane of the truck tires. This was a prime reason for designing it to Load/unload from the curb side as most curb height's offer at least 4" or more of rise for the foot of the ramps. I also picked ramps that are 19" wide so there is a lot of working width to accommodate the different wheel straddles of the front and rear axles. I go into this and a lot more in the blog entry if you are interested. My biggest concern was safety, second was convenience and third was cost to get to a usable and reliable solution. I am happy with the results and they have all been met though my original guess at overall cost was a little low, it was not outrageous for a first time build. I have the option to add a winch if I find it is useful. I can foresee conditions that could make it advisable to have one. Enjoy the process. I guarantee you will be thrilled with the results. |
Jackie and Skip Tamm 04 December 2010 05:26 PM |
We love ours, no matter what other opinions are, we will drive our Smart and Volvo. Till you buy all from us, we will not give up our right to do what we want, when we want and how we want!! Our opinions are ours, not anyone else's. Till Then, Love the life you have or give it up!!! Pw |
Jack Mayer 04 December 2010 05:42 PM |
The crash tests I have seen were against fixed barriers. The Smart fared better than many full(er) sized cars. There is no doubt, however, that it would not fare well between a wall and a large vehicle. But most vehicles would not. One factor to consider - if it is not pinned against an immovable object when it is hit, it will "football" away since it is so light. This helps to dissipate forces. Still, even with as many safety features that it has, I don't want to get hit in one.... |
Billr 04 December 2010 07:34 PM |
Hey Rick, everyone should pray for me too since I Ride a Bike, ATV, and Drive a Smart. Bill |
DaveM 05 December 2010 07:09 AM |
I apologize if I portrayed that Smart cars are unsafe. That is not at all what I wanted to do. I just posted the picture for all to see. Just like I would post any other topic. I see many took offense to this and its not what i wanted. In fact I think its a very good thing for fulltimers that want to do what you all have done.
But I will leave this topic alone and just read. Guess its just better that I just not post on this topic because I haven't got a Smart car or HDT. But I do have a large 5th wheel and a little Ford 350 dually. Someday maybe.............................. |
Billr 05 December 2010 09:04 AM |
That's ok Dave. No sweat. Its just that this old horse has been beat so many times and we hear it often when folks walk up to chat. It never fails, any post on the Smart ends up turning into what you saw here. It would have went there no matter if you posted the famous pic or not.
We all should let it go, but that is hard to do! So post away and don't worry! I have heard if you water that F350 everyday it can grow up to be an HDT! It worked for me! (Was a Chevy though) Oh no, there I go starting yet another dreaded debate!! NOT! |
Jack Mayer 05 December 2010 09:20 AM |
EVERY single person that is not an RVer/HDTer that I have mentioned a Smart to has said that it is a death trap - or words to that effect - and that they would never even get into one, let alone own one. EVERY person. It is remarkable. My BIL - who owns a Miata - said the same thing....and also claimed it was far to small to fit his 6' into. I laughed at him. He has never even seen a Smart in person......typical..... |
J.W. Morgan 05 December 2010 09:35 AM |
Yep I can even get into one of them, it just wouldn't be fun to ride with me! |
DaveM 05 December 2010 10:44 AM |
Billr I keep watering the Ford and I even give it double ration oats with steroids and it still don't grow. But I am hoping that someday I will have the MTD or HDT. I would imagine that day coming sooner than later. But circumstances with the forced retirement due to health and buying a new 5th wheel has a way of doing a job on the wallet. But hey, I'm still fulltiming and enjoying this lifestyle immensely. Another dream comes true. Jack And that's my take on it...................... Have fun all and enjoy this world of RVs!!!! |
Toterman 05 December 2010 11:10 AM |
Jack I have heard it all as well. I read somewhere that the Smart has a better crash rating than a Ford F150 so I just lay that on them and they shut right up. But who am I to know safe from unsafe, I have put over 8 thousand miles on my Harley in the last two years. Like Ute's accident, that should have been the end for her but she is doing just fine today. When your time is up it probably won't matter much what your in. |
Dennis M 05 December 2010 11:11 AM |
We've owned the Smart for almost five years and we still get the same comments as Jack noted, a bit less now that the 451 has been introduced in the States.
Nancy's standard reply is "I would not want to get hit in anything!" But as Bill noted, after a while we get just a wee bit defensive. Fact is I looked into the safety aspects very carefully before I bought a Smart. I am a firm believer in accident avoidance and things like traction control, stability control, and active brake assist only added to the appeal of a full encapsulated frame and four airbags. I am not the least nervous driving the Smart - I only maintain the attitude that I have always had: Every other driver on the road is out to kill me and they can't drive for diddly. |
rickeieio 05 December 2010 01:47 PM |
Every vehicle is a projectile, waiting to hit something. I like being a smaller, more maneuverable target. A Smart or motorcycle is a good choice if you practice avoidance. |
Billr 05 December 2010 02:56 PM |
I've raced and ridden motorcycles for 40yrs (man that's a long time ) and drive the Smart the same way as the bike. Like everyone is out to get me! First thing they teach in rider training after letting the clutch out!
Drove the Smart to and from work for over a year in heavy traffic on a major highway and city streets. Never any issue with feeling uncomfortable. I do try to stay away from large vehicles in the case they can't see me. Would I like a larger vehicle, sure. But, no load on the truck and keep the rig down to reasonable length. Not interested in double towing for lots of reasons. So when someone asks me how I like the Smart, I say just fine, it fits on the truck! |
Emery Nash 06 December 2010 05:42 AM |
JW My youngest son is 6' 3" and about 310. I am only fractionally smaller and we tool around comfortably together. It has a lot to do with the offset seats, though. I just miss a center arm rest. And I gave up on watering the F350. It only took a few calculations to realize that it would not turn into an HDT before it turned into a pile of rust and rubber. As for the well-meaning but sometimes ill-timed comments from those that have not yet stepped up to the plate to bat....... batter up! |
J.W. Morgan 06 December 2010 08:00 AM |
Emery, I am a couple inches shorter and your son has some weight on me, I am still wider at the top than in the middle and I would say that it is possible to use it as a two seater with me at the wheel, just not very comfortable. It really reminds me of when dad had the 152 Cessna, we could get in and fly, there was NOTHING very comfortable about it. (Dad was 6'3" and around 210lbs). Like you said in your post, the passenger would have to slide the seat completely rearward to make an offset in seating. |
Toterman 06 December 2010 06:31 PM |
To me it was a little more like my Cessna 172 I had. The Smart has more room than the 150 !! JMHO David |
J.W. Morgan 06 December 2010 06:43 PM |
David, I made a typo, it was a Cessna 172N! OOOPS! |