Need Help With 630 Steering Problem

Need Help With 630 Steering Problem

Need Help With 630 Steering Problem

10ponies
09 March 2010
11:40 PM
Hello everyone.  I have not posted in a very long while.  I have a 2004 Volvo 630 D12, 183 in wheel base, with a FreedomLine tranny and an air ride front axle.  I had it singled in AZ at the same place Ray H had his work done.  Problem is there is NO feel of the road.  Feels like I am trying to herd cats down the freeway.  If this was a pick up I would say this thing needs sway bars.  It does not seem to matter if I am bob tailing or not, still has the same issue.  It does get worse when I put my 44 foot goose neck on.  Feels like it is wagging the rear end of the trailer every time I touch the wheel.

I talked to Ray H on the phone some time back and he said he had the same problem until he had a steering stabilizer installed.  I had that done but it did not seem to help at all.

Sure could use some help.

Dan Freedman
09 March 2010
11:50 PM
Alignment? Specifically, not enough toe-in?
Hogrydr
10 March 2010
05:44 AM
My first thought is short wheel base and front air bags??  I haven't ever driven a truck with front air bags that was singled.  But I have driven tandem axle trucks with the front bags and they had little to no feel(feedback) and felt real squirrelly in the ruts on the Interstate.  I don't think my fix would be welcome !!!! JMHO
Jim
Jack Mayer
10 March 2010
12:13 PM
I'm with Jim....all the front air bag trucks I've driven have felt terrible. You may have another issue - I hope you do, because there is not much you can do otherwise...
10ponies
10 March 2010
01:30 PM
The Volvo dealer tells me there is no alignment problem and the truck does track straight.  Just no feel of the road and the frame and cab don't seem to be connected.  If you ever tried to tow a trailer with the late 70's Ford pick up....same feeling here.
Dan Freedman
10 March 2010
01:47 PM
Odd.  I believe I have front air ride on my 780, which has a 198" wheelbase after singling (so yours is about 8% shorter wheelbase than mine).  The ride is a little ponderous, but I don't have any trouble keeping it going in a straight line, or around corners either.  This is true whether bobtailing or towing my 16k lb. trailer.  I think there has to be more to it than just "short wheelbase and air ride front suspension."  Mine's no sports car, but the "road feel" met my expectations.

Perhaps it is some sort of steering gear bushing wear, or something like that???  Time for a VIS-check?  If you're still in Phoenix, Phoenix Tire has one.  Also, FWIW, I'm going to have my trailer brakes and suspension looked at in Mesa in a couple weeks, and have been recommended to this place (http://www.spectrac.com/). Looks like they
do truck suspension work too.

Bear in mind, I've only owned mine a few months, so I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
Dan

DonF
10 March 2010
03:36 PM
We, also, have the front air bags -- were told the bags are "slightly" off-balance but it shouldn't be a problem(?) worth the several hundred dollars to "fix"... according to service mgr. at the PHX Volvo shop.

On the drag-link issue, I had mine replaced at Doonan's back in '07; still having minor steer-wheel shimmy issue, plan to get Centramatics balancers installed (swapping out the steers, adding the steering dampener and replacing the drag link resolved the lion's share of my intermittent shimmy issue).

VIS check has been done (twice) once, at time of purchase then at Doonan's -- passed clean; also, last year, had full alignment check (3-axle) done same time we did the steering dampener kit,,, shimmy is still there (the hood cover moves side-to-side going at highway speed leaving PHX).

My next step is to try Centramatics on the steers -- unless I learn something different (here or elsewhere); I want to have the wheel-balance shop take another look at the front wheel assembly.
Don

Steve in SoCal
10 March 2010
03:49 PM
I know you said the alignment specs were OK but, caster angle has a direct impact on steering force and feel.  I would suggest you go to the maximum caster angle and see if that helps.
Steve
Ray H
10 March 2010
04:10 PM
10Ponies
I too have front air bags.  Another big thing to check is a 4 wheel alignment especially after singling.  After the singling, I had a 4 wheel (two axle) alignment done in Phoenix.  They found the rear axle was out a fraction of an inch (like 1/8th inch), but it was enough to keep pushing the truck around.  After they re-shimmed the rear axle and completed the alignment, I did notice a big change at freeway speeds.  Like Don stated, add in the drag link, the steering damper, good major brand steer tires, and Centramatics, you should be in for a easy drive.  I am singled short with approx. 186" wheelbase, and now I can just cruise along comfortably and even do a bit of multi-tasking.  The suspension is close to perfect but I'm still looking for that final touch.
Ray
Ray H
10 March 2010
04:27 PM
Dan Freedman
Not trying to highjack 10Ponies thread but this is along the same line.  The shop you attached a link for, Spectrac, did a custom rear air suspension on my 07 Chevy dually D/A, complete with rear air bags (no
rear steel springs at all), ping tanks, compressor, air tank, etc., all controlled automatically.  They did a great job on my P/U and I've put about 50K miles on it with no problems at all.  As for my opinion, I give them 5 stars.  They do most of the school buses in the area, and about anything you want to do to the suspension, axles, brakes, or frame of a 5th wheel trailer.  I know they do work on Class 7 & 8 tractor suspensions but I don't know how deep they go.  For what it's worth, they do custom make/sell their own U-Bolts. If you have something special in mind, talk with the owner, Jerry Hartman.  This is just an opinion & recommendation.  I got no dog in this hunt.
Ray
10ponies
10 March 2010
11:19 PM
Thanks everyone,

I will try a few of these ideas and let you know what comes of it.

10ponies
10 March 2010
11:21 PM
Ray
Where did you have this work done?
Ray H
11 March 2010
12:32 PM
10ponys
The 2 axle alignment was done at Flying J on I-10 at 67th Avenue exit (west side of Phoenix at exit #137).  Centramatics were purchased from their website and installed at the same Flying J Truck Stop.  Drag Link
and Steering Damper were bought and installed at Vanguard Truck Center of Phoenix, the local Volvo Dealer located on south 19th Ave.  If I were doing it again, I would do the Drag Link & Steering Damper with Vanguard but move the 2 axle wheel alignment and installation of Centramatics to Phoenix Tire.  They also have a VIS machine so give the old girl a shake while you're there.  One thing I didn't mention before, with air bags on the front, it's important that you run the front tires at a minimum of 100 pounds cold. If under that pressure, they like to grab
every imperfection in the road.  I run my rears at 85#.  You may want to run a bit (not much) softer as I've got a steel plate bed on mine that weighs close to 4,000 pounds.  Really helps the ride.  As stated before, the importance of good name brand front steer tires such as Michelins make a big difference.  Besides, a blowout on either of the steers is a situation you don't want to find yourself in.  It's a handful.  If you decide to do the steering damper, it comes as a kit, and many dealers don't know where to find it. Let me know when you're ready and I'll dig up the Volvo part number. You'll need to have them order it as no one will have it in stock.  It came from an actual factory recall on some of the earlier VNLs with front air suspension.  In 2006, they redesigned the front air valves and talking to owner/operators who've owned both, say it made a big difference.  Those are the same guys that told me to always run 100# in the steers no matter how you're loaded.  They should know.  Let me know if you need anything else.  I can always be reached at 602-975-6135.
Ray
byrdseye
12 March 2010
09:08 PM
I agree with what others have said about quality tires, air pressure and caster.  Also, make sure your track bar (panhard rod) is not worn out.  It will let the axle move laterally if it is worn.  As an aside, I had a rig that I hauled a 15K horse trailer that handled like a drunken pig after installing a new set of front tires (Dunlop).  No mater what I tried it was just horrible to drive as it wandered and followed the ruts like crazy.  A different set of fronts (Michelin) with stiff sidewalls cured the problem completely.
10ponies
02 April 2010
02:47 PM
I thought I would update everyone.  I took the truck to Spectrac in Mesa.  They told me I needed a steering stabilizer.

I told them I had one I just put on at the Volvo dealer that I paid almost $700 dollars for.  Yes, they said it is, that is junk.

They told me I need a gas shock operated dual spring stabilizer.  Told me that it would provide feedback from the road and be self centering.  They were correct.  I would say a 75% improvement.

They also said that if I took the wheel base from 183 to at least 200 inches it would greatly improve the steering.

So, if anyone wants a Volvo steering stabilizer. I have one for cheap.

Ray H
02 April 2010
04:10 PM
10ponies
Keep us updated as you get additional miles on your truck with the new stabilizer.  Do you know who the manufacturer of the stabilizer kit is?  Sounds like the one I see advertised all the time for motorhomes.  What was a ballpark price installed?
Ray
Jack Mayer
02 April 2010
05:22 PM
What a bunch of %^$#. I have a 182" wb, singled Volvo.  I have Dunlop steers.  I have NO added equipment...no Centramatics, no slime, no nothing in the tires.  I have no add-on steering stabilizers.  My truck tracks true and rides smooth.  I can take my hands off the wheel and the truck will maintain its lane for at least 15-30 seconds on a decent road.  I can drive with one finger steering comfortably - not that I do.  Rocky - with his 770 - can do the same thing with a tandem tractor.

Why can my stock truck with singled short wb do this if it is required to add on all this "stuff" to get a decent steering truck?

Well, part of the answer is 1) good tires (and Dunlops are sure not the BEST) 2) PROPER balancing, on the truck, not off the truck 3) trued up tires 4) PROPER alignment 5) the steering system and suspension has been gone over and any worn parts replaced...like the drag link 6) I have shocks that are within specs.

I hate to provide a "flip" answer, but if the truck does not steer right there is something wrong with it.  If you find whatever that is, then it will ride and steer great without adding on anything, including balancers, etc. JMO.  Let the flames begin.

Jim S
02 April 2010
05:40 PM
Jack, I had a bunch of troubles with Goodyears 169 and finally gave up and installed 2 Toyo steer tires and fixed my problems.
Jim S
rmader
02 April 2010
05:50 PM
Your a 100% right Jack.
Jeff- C IL
02 April 2010
06:25 PM
I have to say I agree with most of the comments - A properly maintained steering system SHOULD work fine, and is always the first steps that need to be taken.  Real world that is not always the case--two brand new identical cars/trucks often do not perform the same.  Why?? Tiny differences that add up, one tire that isn't quite round, a 1/32" different adjustment in an alignment, etc.  IMO, it sure can't hurt anything to add steering stabilizers and balancers, if your truck doesn't perform right and you've checked all the basics.

One other thing that really affected handling on my truck that hasn't been mentioned here are the REAR tires.  I had old, stiff tires on the truck when I got - and it drove GREAT!  After putting on 4 new rear tires, I just about ditched it the first curve I hit.  The rear end kicked out (serious oversteer).  After 5K miles its a little better, but still not as good as the old tires.  Tire squirm on single rear axles can be a big factor.

My truck gets tugged around by the ruts too,  I just figured it was because it was a '95 White HDT.  Since there is absolutely no sign of uneven tire wear, and no play I can find anywhere in the steering, for now I'm just living with it.

J.W. Morgan
02 April 2010
06:55 PM
Horse Shit was what Jack was getting at and I agree.
Hogrydr
03 April 2010
08:18 AM
I'll stick by my earlier post ..front bags ..short wheel base and squirmy tires are a bad combination.  My wheel base is short, 184".  I run Goodyear steers and keep the alignment and balance checked and have the stock spring front suspension.  I also have either check and replaced or repaired the king pins and bushings ..drag link ..and steering box ..ETC.  It like Jacks, tracks straight no shimmy and good road feel ..bobtail and with RV ..630,000 miles on the clock ..and keep 105 psi in the steers and 100 psi in the drives...JMHO
Jim
Jack Mayer
03 April 2010
12:53 PM
Having front air bags is certainly a complication.  I have only driven one truck with them, and it for sure changes the feel.  I do not like them at all, but I may be hasty in my opinion.  But most drivers I have talked to do not like them either.....